Most leaders talk about innovation. Mark Johnson actually builds for it.

In this episode of Founders & Empanadas, I sit down with Mark Johnson, Co-Founder of Michigan Software Labs, to unpack what innovation really looks like inside high-stakes teams, enterprise orgs, and day-to-day life.

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We cover:

- Why the best innovation comes from crisis, not comfort

- What NASA’s Apollo 13 mission can teach you about leadership

- How to empower junior teammates to share ideas without fear

- The one exercise Mark gives every audience to spark better decision-making

- Tactical frameworks for managing AI expectations without over-engineering

- And what it actually takes to lead through chaos

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If you’re building during uncertain times—or trying to evolve your team from order-takers to product thinkers—this episode delivers real strategies you can apply immediately.

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📌 Timestamps:

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00:00 – Origin story of MichiganLabs

03:00 – Hiring mistakes and early lessons

06:00 – Mark’s TED Talk recap: innovation, crisis, and courage

08:30 – The story behind M&Ms and building through rejection

11:00 – How to innovate in your personal life

15:00 – Empowering your team to speak up

16:30 – Getting engineers to think like product owners

18:00 – Avoiding a surveillance culture while maintaining accountability

19:30 – How AI is changing client demand and staffing

22:00 – The 10-20-70 rule for successful AI adoption

25:00 – Managing client expectations when AI becomes a buzzword

26:30 – Mental health and the agency business model

29:30 – The hardest conversation Mark’s ever had with a client

32:30 – Loneliness in agency life and lessons on resilience

36:00 – Mark’s hot take on the best way to innovate today

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